It is always a good idea to think about your needs/wants in response to site selection. Weather should play a critical role in where you would like to purchase lake property. As an example, you can compare tempature averages by using the weather internet sites. As an example : http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/golf/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/05732?from=36hr_bottomnav_golf

Post is under construction. Please check back.

Larger lakes (more than 500 acres) are prone to more severe weather then are smaller lakes. For example, larger waves, more wind, and a variety of water currents. Boating on Lake George is a much different experince then boating on Lake Bomoseen.  So, as climate effects the lake experience, so does the size of a lake.

lake size is another factor in site selection. Lakes are usually measured in surface acres.

• Water Skiing
• Boating
• Row boat
• Paddle boat
• Kayak
• Canoe
• Pontoon boat
• Fishing boats
• Speed boats
• Rafts
• Swimming
• King of the dock
• Marco Polo
• Diving
• Slide
• Tubing
• Water fights
• Smores\campfire
• Fishing
• Off the dock
• Off the boat
• With kids
• Adults
• Hiking
• Camping
• Picnics
• Cooking outside
• Lake association activities
• Socializing with lake neighbors
• Flowers and Gardening
• Summer friends

Good quality movies are hard to come by. Below is a list of movies that I recommend that in some way deliver to the viewer the fun and enjoyment of lakefront property. Click on the title for a link to a description:

On Golden Pond - Katherine Hepburn and Henry Fonda - 1981

Cheaper by the Dozen2 - Steve Martin 2005

The Great Outdoors - Aykroyd and Candy 1988

What about Bob? - Bill Murray and Richard Dreyfuss 1991

Columbus day weekend at my seasonal lakefront property is mystical and sad. All in all, October in Vermont is one of the most beautiful months. I usually take many great photos of the leaves reflecting on the water. In the morning fog often covers the lake as the sun rises. The sunsets in October are spectacular. I am not sure why, but the western part of the sky turns brilliant red, orange and yellow matching the leaves on the trees. The temperature starts out down around 50 degrees in the am, but by mid afternoon it can be 70 degrees. The term “Indian summer” comes to mind. Even with all the beauty around, Columbus day is an acknowledgment that this fun season is at an end.

Now, for my neighbors, they look forward to ice fishing and snowmobile across the lake. But for me, with four teenage kids, it means that a busy hectic life is upon me and time to close up for the dark, cold, winter months. 

I have closed “camp” for many years, even as a kid. My grandparents owned a lakefront cabin in New Hampshire. It is a bitter-sweet experience. I know that I will be spending the coming cold months day dreaming about when I can open camp again. So, on to the details of closing.

Having done this many times, I like to think that I have it down to a science. First, I always bring free labor, my kids. They know this and have attempted to come up with excuses as to why they cannot come that weekend. But atlas, the lure of 1 final long weekend on the lake usually results in at least one kid giving in. (Ok…I offer them a little money too).

Essentially, I arrive on Friday, enjoy the place until Monday. Monday is when I do all the work. It usually takes about 3 hours with 1 kid as helper. Just to mention, I have some lazy neighbors that actually pay $50 to a local person to close up camp. The same person will open it for $50. I just can’t see giving away good money for 3 hours work. I mean I have the process down to a science!

First I rake all the pine needles off the front lawn (by the lake). This is a therapeutic exercise for me. I have coffee at 7am, then rake leaves at 7:30am. I take my time, only stopping once in awhile to admire the beauty of lake front property. It takes me about an hour to rake and about 1/2 hour for my kid to drag the pine needles to the woods and dump them. This is especially important if you want green grass in the spring. Pine needles are acidic and kill the grass. Now, several of my “slacker” neighbors have decided not to bother with grass. They claim that they come to relax at the lake and not mow grass. So, I help them by raking my pine needles on their dirt (as their grass has died). In fairness to them, I occasionally think that I hear them laughing at me as I sweat while mowing my grass.

This past spring I spent extra time planting flowers and bulbs that I got at “half price- end of season sale” at Lowes. I will work hard for the next few years caring for these plants. I have many shrubs and flowers around. My neighbors make comments now and then, but they are just jealous!

After I rake the leaves, I add natural fertilizer. Now this is a point I should talk about later, as fertilizer is against the environmental regulations. There is all kind of laws about what you can and cannot do when you live next to the lake. So, I will save the horticulture discussion for the next post.

After raking and fertilizing, I move to mulch my plants and wrap many of them to protect against the very cold winter. Some will even get fertilizer. 

Next I bring the dock in. Now, this could consume allot of time depending on how your dock is designed. I leave that to another post also. In my case, I have an eight-foot extension that I disconnect from the main dock and with my helper, lift it out of the water and set in on the main dock. The eight-foot extension dock uses barrels to stay afloat, so it is not too difficult to pull it of the water.

Essentially, I leave the main dock (6×12) in the water. My swimming area has an underlayment of shale, so my dock does not sink. It does move into the lake by 2 - 4 inches each year. I simply make adjustments every spring to compensate. My Dock is made of pressure treated lumber.

I turn the rowboat over and store the oars under the building. I then bring the floating dock to the shoreline. Usually I swim out to it, lift the home made anchor, and float it over to the shore. But this year, I waited too long and the water was cold. So I used a come-along device to pull it to the shore dragging the anchor. 

After the dock is in, the rowboat turned over, oars stored, I then store any lawn furniture under the building. We are now ready to drain the water from the pipes.

This process I have made easy as a result of improvements each year. The first thing I do is turning the electric off to the water pump. Then I open all the faucets in the building including the hose and the shower. I then have a faucet on the water inlet pipe at the lake. I step on two rocks and turn the drain spicket open. All the water pours down the slight hill back into the lake.

I then have drains sweated into the pipes at precise locations. I was able to determine these locations by coming back to camp in the spring to leaks from where a little water was left in the pipe and the pipe burst. I would say that I have four drains. I open all drains and let the water pour out on the dirt floor below the building. I then open the drain on the water heater and allow that to drain (power off of course). That’s it. Takes about 20 minutes.

Next I clean out the refrigerator. All remaining food must be taken home or disposed of. If you leave anything edible, you may get visitors (mice) who leave presents (turds) for you in the spring. I usually do a minor wipe down. The kid will load the boxes of left over food and condiments into my vehicle.

Next I will add a small amount of anti-freeze to the toilets and sink traps. I will turn the gas off. I will remove the main breaker from the breaker box. Then I will bring inside any deck furniture and my grill. Lock the door. Essentially we are finished. I also have a camper that I use for extra sleeping space. That gets cleaned and locked. 

I also drive my boat to the boat launch and load it on the trailer (yet another post). The boat will get stored for the winter.

My neighbors are kind enough to watch the place for me. I will not be back until Easter weekend or after. But, the place will give me some warmth over the winter. During the winter I will get some e-mail from my neighbors as to any news.

To see my lake click on the link.

In August of 2006 I took my family (wife & 4 teen age kids) to Walt Disney World (WDW) in Florida. Normally, I would not have thought of doing this , but my sister is a Disney fanatic. She purchased a Disney Vacation Club (DVC) time share. And, being the frugal person that I am , my sister’s offer of staying at a first rate Disney Hotel at no expense to me, worked. I had not considered myself a amusement park kinda of person, but as it turns out I loved it! Disney is a great place for a family vacation. So this got me to think about my Lakefront Property experiences and expenses. I would like to write a side by side comparison.

Disney has to it’s credit a 100 times the activity of a Lakefront Property. Some of these activities are dramatic in scale, such as roller coasters, water parks, and so much variety that I doubt you could experience it all in 10 years of going 2 weeks a year.

Lakefront property is also dramatic in terms of a wide variety of activity. Waterskiing, tubing, swimming, fishing, camping, hiking, walking, sunsets, and kyaking to name a few. But this still pales in comparison to the activities at WDW. You have 4 theme parks and two water parks. Universal Studios amusement park is a short drive away as well as other Florida attractions.

Disney wins hands down in terms of sheer activity. But lets compare time frames:

As this site is tailored towared the working Americans, it is unlikely that people with a full time job could get away to WDW for more then 2-3 weeks (Perhaps only 1 week). The cost of that 2-3 weeks would be phenominal. But we will look at that comparison later. You can go to your lake front property anytime, for any reason. The DVC salesman said to me “How often do you go vacation” I cheerfully replied “every weekend!”. He looked a bit quisical as to say, How do you do that? I explained that I have a lakefront property that the kids and I go to three seasons of the year. That I take regular weekends, long weekends, and week long vacations there. His reply was “that was good because to own a DVC time share you are locking yourself into taking a DVC vacation at least every 2 years”. I could’nt imagine that! You only get to vacation once every two years! I like going every weekend!

In the DVC catalogue, they “brag” about their point system being very flexible. Take your vacation any time of the year, go to any of the disney resorts, and stay in first class lodging. Ok.. that’s great! But only 2 weeks a year! And if you pick a popular season such as summer, your accomdations use more points so you have to stay less time or use more of your points, or come on a less popular time, such as during the School season (pull the kids out of school). I would recommend that if you go to WDW, that you do go during the school year, as the crowds in the summer, during school breaks, or at Christmas and Easter, are so overwelming that WDW has closed the park at times. This is the worst part of Disney. The crowds!!!Yikes!! You cannot walk without bumping into wall to wall people. Average wait times in August were 40 minutes to 2 hours for 1 ride. My sister purchased a book entitled the “Unofficial Guide to WDW”. This book is necessary if you want to have a good experience at WDW. It encourages you to get up early (At the park gates by 8:30am, which means you are up about 7am at your hotel room) rush through the parks to ride the most popular rides early, get “fast Passes”. I believe that this is all necessary. If you want a good experience at WDW, you need to avoids crowds and wait times of hours. If you go, buy that book. So what’s my point?

Your lakefront property has no lines. No wait times. Probably no people to contend with (neighbors or traffic at the worst). The only book that you need is the one you plan to read while sitting on your deck in the sun with a view of the kids swimming. Your boat and waterskis are waiting, as is your fishpole and the fish stories (Not to mention smores and campfires).

While I was staying at WDW, we stayed at Saratoga Springs resort. I thought to myself, I could just stay at the resort and skip the WDW parks (Crowds and wait lines). The resort has it’s own pool with water that is maintained at tempatures that are always inviting (lakes change in tempature, so swimming can be a chilling-refreshing experience!) . The resort has a SPA, health club, and amenities for a top notch time!

My lake front also has the amenities, but not as consistently. The water temp. may be cold, it may rain, or it might be windy. But over the many months of weekends that I spend there, I can guarantee you that I will get more than two weeks worth of sunshine, warm water, walking trails , and water sports. Again, my lakefront does not have the sheer number of activities that WDW does.

I will say that if you gone tubing behind a speed boat at 40 mph, the water park rides and some of the roller coaster rides lose some of there excitement. Tubing has some serious G-Forces!
So here is what we have so Far: Disney far outpaces your Lake front property in terms of shear activity and crowds of people. You can only go (unless you are local in Florida or close by) about once a year for 2 weeks (depends on how much vacation time you get off from work). Your lakefront property you can go to every weekend for three seasons (9 months). So in short, at WDW you get 2 weeks of high intesity activity, or the equivilant of several months of vacation with less avaible activities at your lake front property.

Social aspects of vacations: The one item that Disney lacked for me was a social aspect. I did not know anybody at WDW. There is a good chance that I would never make friends or develop relationships at WDW. People come for a week or two every year and are so focused in the activities that there is no time to develop relationships. WDW has a single vacation purpose: Enagage in intense activities and spend money. Yes, no doubt about it, this was fun. Your lake front property has a social aspect that WDW does not. We have barbacues with our neighbors, I am on the property owners board, my children have winter friends and summer friends! Some of the friendships are quite rewarding. You become friends with people who vacation on the weekend and have a whole other life somewhere else. But when you get together with these neighbors and friends it is a high quality time, as you always meet them on vacation! I feel invovled in a second community. That second community has a purpose: Continued enjoyment of our lakefront property.
Cost: My lakefront property will pay me to enjoy it! that’s right. Many years ago I purchased my lakefront for 35,000 dollars. It is now valued at 200,000 dollars. While it costs me $500 per month right now, If I were to sell it, I will get it all back plus a sizeable profit! Now, I may not sell it, I may not get the profit, but my kids and grand kids will profit in numerous ways, forever!(Profit is not just money, but quality time as a family) A DVC time share is for about 50 years. Then your time share has ended. still not bad. It is unlikely that you will make profit on that vacation. I estimated that if I used 175 points every year for 50 years, that the lodging cost would be $85 a night. Of course you can sell a time share, but they last 40 to 50 years or less then they end, period! (From my research, because Disney sets the price on timeshares by having right of first refusal, you will not make profit and more then likely loose money). My great, great, grandkids could be visiting my lakefront property!

You must also ask yourself what you want out of a family vacation. If you want Sheer activity, WDW is the place to go. And while you could go to WDW to just stay at the resort, you could do that in any city in any resort. So I am goint to think that you are coming to Disney for the “whole” experience. Is it worth the experience? Yes! Is it worth locking yourself into a DVC timeshare, I’m not so sure. It’s fun but:

The crowds at Disney can unbareable! The wait lines are almost unbareable! The expense is high (5 days of park hopper with waterparks and options was $2,000 for 6 people) (Food was nearly $700 {we ate at restraunts 4x for 1 meal each day!} transportation costs. Easily $5,000 for all (Cheaper for me as I had free lodging). No social aspects as described above. Limited to as many points as you have (2 weeks?) Always being the target of marketing! I would hate to come with young kids, they tire easy, want you to carry them, changing diapers, strollers, and the rush-rush of getting around the park to avoid lines and crowds. Plus, with young kids, you can’t ride some of the rides unless you swap off with your spouse or have a sitter.

At your private waterfront property. Much of the above is a miss. You can do nothing all day, or hit the lake with water sports. No lines. No waiting. Cherishable memories. Cost of ownership over the long term? It pays you! I’d like to see WDW pay you back! Convienence and flexibility? Whenever you want, as long as you want (Assumes a 2 hour drive to your lakefront property or 100 miles, which is the statistical average of second home ownership)

In closing, My sister will still think Disney is better then my Lakefront Property. And, if sheer activity is all you want, then she my be right. But WDW will never pay you back!

Buy your Lakefront Propert while it is still affordable!

The Lake Front Nut

I have a friend named Liz who is currently attempting to purchase her dream lakefront cabin. She has faced many obstacles with regard to financing. I want to discuss a few of them.

First, let set the stage for this discussion. When I say lakefront cabin, I am referring to the financing (loan) of a lakefront property that is only intended to be used as a seasonal recreational property. This is in contrast to the purchase of a primary residence, where you will live and call home. The latter is easily financed as you live there and the bank knows that you don’t want to be “kicked out” of your home. Loan originators know that if you default on your recreational property, you will not be living on the street. So, financing is very different. Let’s compare:

Primary Vs. Recreational (lakefront) Property:

1) For a primary ,you can receive 100% financing without too much difficulty, at nearly all banks. Second home (Recreational lakefront) loan programs are much fewer. As of the time of the post, HSBC does not offer loans of this type (Liz tried!). Of the loan programs available, most originators require at least 20% down, and they will check to see if you saved it or borrowed it.

2) Primary residences are relatively easy to buy without much bank scrutiny. On a primary residence, loan originators will overlook a bankruptcy in your recent past (of course you will get a higher interest rate!). For a recreational property, If you find an loan originator (Cendent is the mortgage company I used (now called mortgage choices 800-446-0963), You are going to be scruitinized in reference to your income and credit. Loans on non-primary residences are considered risky.

3) On your primary residence, depending on your credit, you will get a competitive interest rate. The more risky loans, such as second homes (recreational-lakefront) the higher interest rates. Depending on your credit history, rates could be 5 points higher! This again makes financing harder as you have to qualify for a higher payment.

4) On your primary residence, you will find that many programs are available to roll your downpayment and closing costs into your mortgage. Not so with second home loans. Originators expect you to come up with more cash and take more risk.

5) Many Seasonal lakefront cabins will not meet the lenders requirements. For example, often seasonal places have no official heat source, no well (lake water is used) and even limited facilities (like a holding tank vs. a septic system). Some recreational properties have no “formal” road into them, and no address! Many lenders will not finance these properties. This begins to explain why many lakefront properties are substandard. That is because there were no loans prior to the 1980s. If you wanted to have a lakefront recreational property, you had to have the cash to purchase the property and build something - 100% of the cash!

Liz experienced some of these obstacles. In July of 2006 she made an offer on a lakefront property. She went to lending tree.com and connected with a mortgage company that consumed a month of her time and at the eleventh hour (after realizing that the seasonal cabin was heated with a woodstove and had no formal heating system), the lender dropped her. This was after saying yes all the way through! She has now found another lender, but was close to losing the property. The sellers had several back-up offers!

The best way to purchase recreation lakefront property.

Best way: Use 100% cash (cash is king!). That is what will always work. Figuring that the average lakefront lot (direct lakefront not lake access) is about 200,000 right now, minimal, that would eliminate many of us in the middle class! Who has 200 grand laying around!!

Next Best: Use a mix of cash and loan. Essentially, the better the loan to value ratio, the higher the chance that a bank will go with you. As an example, if you can put 30% down, pay your closing costs, then more then likely you would be approved for the loan. So, on a $200,000 lakefront property, you need about 63,000 down and closing costs, depending on the state (NY is expensive, Vermont is less expensive, good article on this at marketwatch.com), are about $10,000. So you would need roughly $73,000! Still a good chunck of change. Now remember, for $200,000, You are getting a cabin on 50 feet of direct lake front, that has an outdated kitchen and substandard facilities! If you want a “modern home” on a lakefront property (Yearend with heat $400,000+!!)

Minimal requirements: Here is the middle class families with kids and dogs! 20% downpayment (On $200,000 that’s $40,000), closing costs (on $200,000, that about $5-8,000), a great credit history (FICO score of 700 or above), Job stability (the longer at one job the better! {5 years?}), and a average middle class income (40-90k per year), and a persevere attitude!

Financially challenged!: Ok, I believe that if there is a will, there is a way. Planning is essential! It may take many months to several years. Action plan: Save money. You will need at least a 10% downpayment and closing costs. Improve your credit score, if you do not already have a FICO of at least 700. Research lenders. You can do this by talking to realtors at where lakefront property is more common. Learn their criteria and programs.

Read LakefrontPrportyinfo.com. Know what you are getting yourself into! You can do it!! Make your dream happen! Not just for you, but for your family and kids and grand kids! It’s a much better investment then stocks, bonds, rentals or anything else! Waterfront commands 50 to 100% premium! Waterfront is finite! Supply and demand. Do it now! Many lakes (Such as lake George), are only attainable by millionaires! But many beautiful lakes have property that can still be purchase by the middle class!! At least for now!

Thanks. The lakefront property nut!

My lakefront property is about 2 hours from my “main stream” life of work and/or school. Having done this for many years, leaving the lakefront cabin is down to a science. I will be back next weekend, so packing up is easier then at the end of the season. The idea of having a cabin to come to on your lakefront property is to make packing easier and your stay more enjoyable. If you pack to go camping with your tow-behind camper, you have to tow your camper, pay to park it, spent some time setting it up. Usually you do not have access to running water, which makes dishwashing and cooking as well as cleaning a challenge. I found that you actually work more on a camping trip then you have leisure time. Going to your lakefront cabin requires that you tow and bring nothing or very little. Your needed items are waiting for you! You have all facilities! Bathroom/shower, kitchen, coffee maker, running water, and little to no set-up. Just leisure time! The cost of owning your lakefront property may not be more expensive the 10 years of family vacations with a camper in tow. In the end, lakefront property will pay you to for enjoying it at lakefront appreciates must faster then other types of property. More on this later.

Woke up this AM @ 6:30am and took a walk agound my lake front property. The Sun was just rising and the temp. was a cool 70 degrees. My hydrangeas have white blooms contrast the pink phlox. I saw a turtle swim pass the floating dock. Mallard ducks were wading near the grass. I was deciding what I wanted to do with my time today, should I go for an ealy morning swim, or fish, or perhaps take a boat or kayak out for a tour of the lake area near the cove. Early morning is time that I have to myself. By 10am, my kids will be up swimming or asking to go tubing.
Sometimes I like to take a walk around the lakefront area and view the flowers and wildlife. I have seen woodpeckers twice the size of a crow. Auspree are quite commom. They like my floating dock. I usually have my coffee in hand, and take in the fresh air.
The air around lakefront has a identifiable fresh aroma, sort of the like the ocean breeze.